18 January 2022

Workplace Stories Season 4, Skills Odyssey II: Opening Arguments

Dani Johnson
Co-Founder & Principal Analyst
Stacia Garr
Co-Founder & Principal Analyst

TL;DR

  • This is the introductory episode of our podcast: The Skills Odyssey II, Season 4 of Workplace Stories.
  • In this episode, Stacia Garr and Dani Johnson of RedThread Research and Chris Pirie from The Learning Futures Group recap the last year and look to the future as we continue our Skills Odyssey.
  • Dani, Stacia, and Chris discuss all the ups and downs from 2021 and what they hope to learn in the new year.
  • “It’s not just that we’re telling a story and we’re already familiar with the outcome or the insights that they’ll tell; I’ve learned so much from our guests and it’s changed the way I think in some cases fundamentally, that I see a topic.”
  • There are book recommendations, previous podcast recommendations, and how you can be part of this Skills Odyssey.
  • A special thanks to our sponsors, Visier and Degreed, for their support of this season!

Listen

DETAILS

Well… we’re still not home. The fabled Ithaca of Skills nirvana is still somewhere in the distance. This journey we’re on—this Skills Odyssey—continues. But we still are getting help on the voyage from Dani and Stacia from RedThread Research and Chris Pirie from The Learning Futures Group. They are going to share another set of conversations with metaphorical sailors, explorers, and other mythical characters also trying to work out how to avoid the workplace Sirens, tired Cyclops ideas and unhelpful Circe tech that might not help us. This week, dive in yourself to get set up with what the trio of plucky HR and workplace practice thinkers see as the main themes of this, our second look at all things Skills as sponsored (again! Thank you!) by our friends as Visier and Degreed. We also get caught up on how RedThread as a business is building capability and acquiring momentum, as well as reflections on previous ‘Workplace Stories’ seasons. Delightfully, we also get some terrific business and life development book recommendations from all three. It’ll be nice to have some reading matter down here below deck.

Resources

The following were all cited as favorite books of the year:

Dani

Stacia

Chris

Webinar

As with all our seasons, there will be a culminating final live webinar where we will share our conclusions about the show’s findings. As ever, we will share details of that event soon as it is scheduled in early 2022.

Partner

We're also thrilled to be partnering with Chris Pirie, CEO of Learning Futures Group and voice of the Learning Is the New Working podcast. Check them both out.

Season Sponsors

 

 

We are very grateful to our second ‘Skills Odyssey’ sponsors, Visier and Degreed. Visier is a recognized leader in people analytics and workforce planning; with Visier, organizations can answer questions that shape business strategy, provide the impetus for taking action, and drive better business outcomes through workforce optimization. Visier has 11,000 customers in 75 countries, including enterprises like Adobe, BASF, Electronic Arts, McKesson, and more. Degreed is the upscaling platform that connects Learning to opportunities; they integrate everything people use to learn and build their careers, Skills, insights, LMSs, courses, videos, articles, and projects, and match everyone to growth opportunities that fit their unique Skills, roles and goals: learn more about the Degreed platform at degreed.com. We encourage you to show your support for their involvement by checking out both websites—and thanks once again to both organizations.

All three previous seasons of Workplace Stories, as well as our series on Purpose, which was a co-production with the ‘Learning is The New Working’ podcast, along with relevant Show Notes and links, is available here. Find out more about our Workplace Stories podcast helpmate and facilitator Chris and his work here.

Finally, if you like what you hear, please follow Workplace Stories by RedThread Research on your podcast hub of choice—and it wouldn't hurt to give us a 5-star review and share a favorite episode with a friend, as we start to tell more and more of the Workplace Stories that we think matter.

TRANSCRIPT

Five Key Quotes:

While we've seen some good progress in some things, we're also seeing some managers—most managers, in fact—slide back into old habits. It'll be interesting to see, in 2022, how much of some of these practices—which we know can create more agility, we know can create better responsiveness and quite frankly, greater engagement and satisfaction with employees–it’ll be interesting to see how many of those stick. Particularly when we eventually do get folks in the office more regularly.

I'm personally seeing these threads of Skills as like the future operating system of work and DEIB, of inclusive and better work, and then Purpose—I’m really seeing these threads weave together as we talk to our guests, who are running really interesting experiments.

I think that we're gonna maybe see AI being used less for selection, which is where we've seen it a lot with talent acquisition, and potentially more for other applications that are potentially not going to flag the attention of legal authorities. So I think we may see a shift in how AI is used; it will continue to be used, I think it will continue to get more broadly adopted, but potentially in these less high visibility areas.

It's not just that we're telling a story and we're already familiar with the outcome or the insights that they’ll tell; I've learned so much from our guests and it's changed the way, I think in some cases fundamentally, that I see a topic.

So if you have a good story about hybrid work, you're an HR person trying to figure out policy around that you're a leader lead a team in a hybrid environment, or you’re an individual person trying to do a great job and have impact in a hybrid work environment–if you have a point of view what that is or what it isn't, we wanna hear.

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

Welcome to Workplace Stories, a podcast from RedThread Research: I'm Stacia Garr, co-founder and principal analyst at RedThread.

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

And I'm Dani Johnson, co-founder and principal analyst at RedThread.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

And I'm Chris Pirie, CEO of The Learning Futures Group.

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

We're calling this season ‘The Skills Odyssey II,’ and it's a continuation of our investigation into the insights and learnings of talent leaders who are already running hands-on skills projects.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

We are very grateful to our season sponsors Visier and Degreed. Visier is a recognized leader in people analytics and workforce planning. With Visier, organizations can answer questions that shape business strategy, provide the impetus for taking action, and drive better business outcomes through workforce optimization. Visier has 11,000 customers in 75 countries, including enterprises like Adobe, BASF, Electronic Arts, McKesson, and Uber; you can learn more about Visier at visier.com. Degreed is the upskilling platform that connects learning to opportunities. They integrate everything people use to learn and build their careers, skills insights, LMSs, courses, videos, articles, and projects, and match everyone to growth opportunities that fit their unique skills, roles, and goals. Learn more about the Degreed platform at Degreed.com—and thanks to both of our season sponsors.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

It's almost the new year, and we're in between podcast seasons so I thought it might be nice for listeners to hear just what's going on at RedThread Research: how do you think about the year behind us, which I'm reliably informed was 2021, and what's coming up in the future? So do you mind if we have just a little bit of a chat about that?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Let's do it!

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

In 2021, what were your biggest learnings about the evolving future of work? We could probably do a whole podcast season on this, but what do you think were the big highlights in the evolution of work in 2021?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

I think for me it was that it doesn't have to be as complicated as people make it. So we've heard a lot about The Great Resignation, and all of the tech studies that we've done recently, all add complexity to work. And it might be recency bias—it might be because I'm standing on a soapbox right now—but for me, it has to do with simplification. I don't think it has to be as complicated as we've made it; I think there are easier solutions than the ones that have been introduced so far. And that's what I'll be looking for in 2022.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Got it. Stacia?

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

I would say that it's a strong reminder that progress is uneven. So we just finished a performance management study that shows that some of the things we've been talking about for a long time, like the importance of managers connecting with employees, continuously discussing goals and updating them, that we've seen massive improvements in those things happening. But we see that managers’ openness to this new information has actually gone down since about a year ago since October of 2020. Their willingness to be open to flexible work has gone down, and then also their focus on assessing people by the job done versus time in seat has gone down. So while we've seen some good progress in some things, we're also seeing some managers—most managers, in fact—slide back into old habits. So I think it'll be interesting to see, in 2022, how much of some of these practises, which we know can create more agility, we know can create better responsiveness and quite frankly, greater engagement and satisfaction with employees—it’ll be interesting to see how many of those stick, particularly when we eventually do get folks in the office more regularly.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Was there something that gave you hope this year, Stacia?

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

One thing that gave me hope is that the Purpose conversation, which we had started this whole podcasting thing with you, Chris, right? Is that the Purpose conversation hasn't totally gone away. I think that there are still organizations who are making meaningful progress on figuring out how to integrate Purpose into their learning, into their practices, into their leadership development approaches. And that gives me some significant hope.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Dani?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

I think for is that the conversation about—Stacia talked about some of the things fading through the pandemic and after the pandemic as we return a little bit to work, but the DEIB discussion hasn't faded. So we're still seeing it as a really important thing all throughout the organization, not just the C-Suite DEIB person, but all the way down. In fact, I just gave a webinar on how DEIB needs to be integrated into learning, and it's not a course anymore, it’s how do we actually integrate it into the culture and make it, for once and for all figure out this equity and equality thing.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

I'm personally seeing these threads of Skills as like the future operating system of work and DEIB, and an inclusive and better work, and then Purpose—I’m really seeing these threads weave together as we talk to our guests who are running really interesting experiments in this podcast. So that's good; that’s a reason for hope, and we all need that. How about the RedThread business, any particular milestones on the business? I know you guys have been working super hard this year: things you're feeling particularly good about?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Well, we just finished one year of our membership practice, so that was good. People are excited about that. We also tripled our revenues this year, which was also a very big thing for us; we started small and we made it fit within our lives, but it seems like RedThread is gaining momentum and capturing some of the imagination of the people that are helping us do the research. It's really been great.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Stacia?

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

I think also the team’s really started to fit into a rhythm, or fall into a rhythm, and this year we produced close to 90 pieces of content from a relatively small team. And I think about where I was before at other organizations, large organizations that people know, and we never did anything like we are doing now. The team is just on fire, and I'm so grateful for the folks that we have who work with us and who bring their absolute best every day. And I'm also proud of the systems—Dani and I talk a lot about systems—but the systems we've put in place to enable people to do their best work.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

That’s great, that's super nice to hear, and yeah, I can testify to the productivity because I can't keep up with the consumption of your output, so if you can work on that, please, that would be great.

[Laughs]

Let’s ask about what you are reading? That's a good, sort of like end of year topic—everybody publishes their reading lists and best of lists: what’s on the bedside table related to work, or not related to work book-wise—what books are hot with you guys?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

I read three this year that really changed the way that I think about things. The first one was called Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman; it’s a really fun read, but he takes a really philosophical approach to what learning, what time is, and why humans use time and how they can use it better. And it's a lot about prioritization and focusing on what matters to you and all that kind of stuff. The second one that really struck me as a book called Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski. It’s written particularly from the standpoint of a woman, but really gets into why we feel burnout and how we can counteract that. She defines the difference between ‘stress’ and ‘stressors,’ and how we need to get rid of stress and not just focus on getting rid of the stressors. So that was pretty impactful for me, and then there was a final book called Boundaries by a couple of Southern gentlemen that I found incredibly helpful that just talks about defining your boundaries, and sticking to your boundaries and then not worrying about anything else. If you're within your boundaries and you're comfortable within your boundaries, then you don't need to worry about somebody being mad that you're sticking within those boundaries. And that's been really helpful, especially in a year where there's so much going on and so much to do, being able to say no.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Stress, boundaries, time management—probably says it all!

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

I'm a new mom! Things that I read…

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

I didn't wanna say that out loud, but yeah, I think we could all be better at those things too. Stacia, what pops for you?

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

Well, one is that Dani didn't mention but she recommended to me, which was a book called Essentialism by Greg McKeown, and that one I think was super helpful in just thinking about—certainly from a business perspective—you know, what does the business need to do? What do we actually need to do now ? I have a sticky note on my computer that says “less but better” and “can does not equal should/” And so that thinking and focus is really stuck with me from that book. And then I recently actually just over Thanksgiving and then until now have read three other books that I think are really powerful. One was by Indra Nooyi, who was the CEO of PepsiCo and just hearing and listening to her story was powerful. And certainly yes, powerful as a mom and some of the trade-offs and choices she made, but actually what was most powerful for me was taught about how being from a different background than everybody else—she grew up in India. She, you know, had this experience of there only being limited running water during certain times of the day, all these things—how that then influenced how she approached PepsiCo and she had this concept of ‘PWP,’ I think profits with purpose—it may not be profits, but it, it was basically running the business by having a Purpose lens on it. And so through that work, for instance, in that focus, they were able to dramatically decrease the amount of water used to create Pepsi, as an example, and they changed their packaging and how much plastics were used and how much was used from recycled sources, et cetera, et cetera. And so just kind of seeing how having a diverse voice, and a diverse voice, at the top, really changed that organization, and it was powerful. It was called My Life in Full. And then I just finished Tarana Burke’s Unbound, and she's the person who came up with the phrase ‘Me Too,’ initially. And it was really interesting to hear her story of where that came from and how intimate and personal that phrase was and all the work that she had done and obviously done kind of a lot in me too, in the business context. But reading that was powerful, and then the one that I'm working my way through now, which is already having an impact is Atomic Habits, which really talks about how do habits form, why do we have habits, and then, you know, eventually how do you change them? But I've been thinking about that both in my own life context, but also with RedThread: we want RedThread to be a habit for folks, and how can we make it the best habit possible? So that one I'm only about halfway through, but it's so far proven, really powerful.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Great list. Both of you. I know it's not about me, but I'm gonna throw one in, because you talked about McKeown—I’m only gonna just give you one, people have to subscribe to get my list, I don't give it away so easily! But yeah, you talked about Essentialism’s writer, who used to partner with Liz Wiseman on her first kind of breakthrough book, which was called Multipliers: Liz is a good friend of mine and former colleague of mine, and she's just published a book called Impact Players. And what's really interesting is that she has always worked with leaders, really senior leaders, and she's really thought and written about leadership, and she's really sort of changed her focus here to talk to individuals. And I think it's really symptomatic of what's happening around leadership; there’s just a lot of change going on, people are looking for different types of leadership, and people are looking into them within themselves for how to set goals and make an impact in organizations and not just kind of relying on your manager to do that for you. So I think there's an interesting shift going on there. Liz is a really wise and thoughtful person, and that's a book that I'd recommend.

Let's talk about 2022. ‘The future is already here, it’s just not evenly distributed,’ that’s one of my favorite quotes when thinking about the future, and you guys think about the future all the time. Do you ever publish predictions, you two and generally, what are you hoping for in the coming year?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

We publish trends, so the very near future, I guess?

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

“Predictions” is actually bad: most futurists would not use that term at all, but trends and forces that are gonna shape our world in the multi-distant future. What do you think?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

We can give you a little taste: we’re actually doing a webinar for our members toward the end of January to talk about some of these larger trends. Stacia, wanna go first?

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

Sure. So, a few of the things we'll talk about: one is the continuing impact of AI on our space. AI is going to come under greater scrutiny, legal scrutiny—there’s a bill before Congress on this, there’s a lot more interest obviously in Europe on this topic, and so I think that we're gonna start to see a lot more focus on clarifying the black box of AI, what has been a black box for some. And also AI probably being used in different ways. So a big focus of both Congress, and then also there's a focus out of the group that traditionally has been part of the EEOC around selection. I think that we're gonna maybe see AI being used less for selection, which is where we've seen it a lot with talent acquisition, and potentially more for other applications that are potentially not going to flag the attention of legal authorities. So I think we may see a shift in how AI is used; it will continue to be used, I think it will continue to get more broadly adopted, but potentially in these less high visibility areas. That’s one prediction or trend that we're gonna talk about.

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Yeah, another one is—and Stacia and I have been talking about this for four years, every year we say we bring it up, but we're gonna bring it up again—and that is the ‘string theory’ of HR and peoples within an organization: learning isn't just learning anymore, performance management isn't just performance management anymore, DEIB isn't just DEIB anymore, they’re all an interconnected conversation and they need to be in order to actually change the way that organizations function and meet the needs of the employees as well as the business strategy. So we think that that is we're to the point now where that AI is getting good enough and the data that is out there is good enough. I would say that we're gonna see some leaps this year and how those conversations come together and how organizations and tech vendors, frankly, address it.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Fascinating stuff: well, let's encourage people to listen to, or sign up for the webinar and go deeper on those trends that you guys are watching—super good. When we started the podcast—I think it depends on how you count, because we did a collaborative one under the Learning Is The New Working banner, and then we launched the RedThread, so I guess from RedThread podcasts, we’re just about to kick off Season Four. I listened back to the first episode, where we talked about your aspirations and Stacia, you talked about stories that bring the research to life, and you guys obviously take a very sort of quantitative look at your research, and what's amazing is the stories around that make that data and make the findings so powerful. Has podcasting met the expectations and aspirations that you had so far?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

I think it's exceeded mine. I mean, Stacia’s been talking about a podcast since we started RedThread, and I've been dragging my feet because it's just one more thing to do, and different and completely unfamiliar to us and we would need to learn a bunch of things, and you helped us a ton sort of mitigate some of those things, Chris. But it's exceeded my expectations—not just in the stories that we get to tell, but also in the insights that I gain from having these conversations. So it's not just that we're telling a story and we're already familiar with the outcome or the insights that they’ll tell, but I've learned so much from our guests, and it's changed the way, I think in some cases fundamentally, changed the way that I see a topic.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Dani, one of the first pieces of your work that I came across was the work that you did on what differentiates humans from robots—you know, what's our humanity all about and an attempt to really understand that as a platform from which to build a better workplace. And obviously one of the threads of that was storytelling, and the power of storytelling, and how that is an intrinsically human thing. And that comes back to me every time when there's almost always a point in every podcast where the sort of humanity of the person kind of appears, and we get through the corporate speak and we really learn something at a very human level. Stacia, for you?

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

I think one thing I've learned is the power of having the three of us together for this. Because Chris, you always have a perspective that is truly different from Dani and my perspective, and pushes people in a way that I wouldn't have thought to push them. And the same for Dani: Dani’s seeing different things—we have a kind of a similar overall frame, but she's focused on different areas. And so, you know, we might be talking about the same to this person and in my head, I go to one place, and the two of you go in totally different directions. And I think I learn so much as a result of having the two of you on the podcast, because it just brings a depth and a thoughtfulness, hopefully, I think to our conversations that doesn't happen when I just interview people for a research report.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

But isn't it amazing how willing people are to share? Not just not just the kind of traditional case studies where, you know, business schools, case studies, blah blah, we did this and we broke up this new ground and so on and so forth. But for me what's quite interesting is people are really perfectly open to saying, this is hard and we've struggled and we've had doubt and fear and loathing on these journeys: I love that people are just so open in these conversations!

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

I also love, Chris—I’m not sure would've occurred to either Stacia or I—to ask the emotional question that you ask at the end of each webinar, Why do you do what you do? I remember when you first asked me that—I appeared as a guest on your podcast, and I actually broke down like I cried, because it made me think of why I do this. And I love the fact that you do that because it brings the human in. We are researchers, and I don't necessarily go there automatically: having you as a partner in this has been really important to make sure that we get that human aspect into the stories that are told.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Well, that's nice of you to say. We often have a technique where we take a clip and put it right at the beginning of the podcast, and I listen to all the conversations and tidy them up a little bit afterwards, though not much. But it's amazing how that question always spawns like a really powerful insight. Not always, but often that's where, when you give people the permission to just tell you how they're feeling or why they're doing, you know, very broad on specific questions, which I assume is very different from the kind of questions you ask when you are doing research, right?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Yeah, it definitely is. And I've been surprised that even some of the most logical and data driven people that we've talked to have these just beautiful responses to that question. Like these bleeding hearts, beautiful, I’m here to change the world type of answers, which gives me hope in humanity.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

And genuine as well, I think.

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

The other thing is that has been, I think, an unexpected benefit of the podcast is we've really had a chance to speak with people that we didn't know before, because we knew that we were focused on a particular question that we wanted to bubble up great insights around. And because we're doing it in a way that shares broadly, people have been more willing to participate. I mean, people are generally pretty willing and generous and participate in research interviews, but as a result of this, we've been able to meet folks that I don't think we would've met before, and then they share these amazing insights. And so it's been a really cool experience from that perspective.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Well, to that point we had at least one guest who kind of volunteered himself, who reached out based on a conversation from the previous year. It's actually the live podcast, the current podcast, right—Tim Dickson from Novartis. He reached out and said, I'm really interested in what you're talking about, and I have a point of view! What are the topics that we're thinking about? I know we have at least two seasons that we're gonna start production on and maybe more, so let's do a little call to action for people who might have a story to share: what are the topics that we're interested in hearing about as we go forward into 2022?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Skills! So Skills have captured the imagination and the fear, I suppose, of many leaders. And so we'll be doing a Skills Odyssey 2.0 or Skills Odyssey II, right, to continue that discussion. We found so many people that were willing to give us their thoughts and what they were doing within their organization to capture skills and use that data to, to move the organization forward—we have some really good interviews already programmed and ready to record. We're also gonna be talking about hybrid work. Lots is being written about that.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

No one’s interested in that!

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Nobody at all! [Laughs] Lots is being written about it right now, and we wanna get in depth a little bit. We don't wanna just gloss over this one, but we wanna do this as a podcast, because we want to dive in and talk about what exactly they're doing, and why they're doing it and how they're making those decisions because we think that insight will help us understand it a little bit better. But we also think that it colors a lot of the things that we'll be doing in the next couple of years; it will impact other decisions we make in some of our other people practices.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

All right, so if you have a good story about hybrid work, you're an HR person trying to figure out policy around that, you're a leader lead a team in a hybrid environment, you’re an individual person trying to do a great job and have impact in a hybrid work environment: if you have a point of view what that is or what it isn't, we wanna hear, right?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Yeah, we absolutely wanna hear that.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

And how can people connect on this one?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Send an email to [email protected], or Stacia and I, we live on LinkedIn. So send us a message and we'll get a hold of you.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Great; the quality of this is just down to the openness of people to participate—I love it, that underlines the whole business model. Right—favorite episodes! I know we love all our children equally. That's a little bit easier for you, Dani, than Stacia and I.

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Yeah. It's really easy for me!

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Are there particular, like if somebody's just coming to this, to the RedThread Workplace Stories podcast, for the first time, are there any standout episodes that you would sort of point them at? I'll go first; I actually had two podcast conversations with Rachel Fichter from S&P, and she calls herself a scholar practitioner and she thinks very, very deeply about things. I think this was in our DEIB season, we had a great conversation with her, and in terms of podcasting people being honest and sharing the tough things and the insights, I think that was a great example of what Workplace Stories can do.

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Yeah. I loved that one. I also loved the one with Vidya Krishnan from Ericsson; she spoke very passionately about what she does and brought the sort of people aspect into Skills—like we're doing this for the good of the people, but always with that tie back to the organization, this is part of our business strategy, people are part of our business strategy and we need to figure this out for the people and for the business strategy. And I love how she was able to tie all of that together and speak so passionately about it.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Stacia, do you have a favorite one or two?

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

All of 2021?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Yeah. It's hard.

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

It's hard. Well, I think I'm gonna go with the one that I thought Dani was gonna take, but thankfully didn't, which was Kate Shaw from Airbnb.

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Oh yeah, that was a good one!

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

I think the humanity that she talked about in the face of difficulty and holding true to the values that the organization had was I think just, it was remarkable and the thoughtfulness probably my, I don't know…

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Yeah, no, it's an impossible task. And I thought really hard about asking it in the first place, because honestly, everybody shows up with a hundred percent honesty and an enthusiasm for the work—all great people, many, many thanks to all of them for showing up, so I didn't I didn't want to diminish anybody's contribution.

But I think that's all we have time for today; we’ve got to go and kick off 2022. Thank you two for your partnership on the podcast, which has really been a lot of fun for me in a very strange year for me—but yeah, let's go do some more, and let's help make the future of work so much better.

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

Absolutely. Thank you for your partnership, Chris.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

Thank you for listening to this episode of Workplace Stories. Dani and Stacia: how could our listeners get more involved in our podcasting and the work that you guys do?

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

Well, Chris, they can subscribe and rate us on the podcast platform of their choice.

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

They can also share this, or their favorite episode, with a colleague or a friend.

Dani Johnson, RedThread Research:

They can check out the beautiful handcrafted transcripts at redthreadresearch.com/podcast, where they can also access some of our other research.

Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research:

And to access all of our research, they can become a member which supports us in doing the work and also allows them to access our wonderful community.

Chris Pirie, Learning Futures Group:

We should also give a big, big thank you to all our guests for sharing their knowledge and insights throughout all these Seasons. Of course, to our sponsors, please check out their websites for their support of this and other projects—and to you, our beloved listeners.

[Dani Johnson, RedThread Research & Stacia Sherman Garr, RedThread Research]:

Thank you.

About the author

Dani Johnson

Dani is Co-founder and Principal Analyst for RedThread Research. She has spent the majority of her career writing about, conducting research in, and consulting on human capital practices and technology. Her ideas can be found in publications such as Wall Street Journal, CLO Magazine, HR Magazine, and Employment Relations. Dani holds an MBA and an MS and BS in Mechanical Engineering from BYU.

Stacia Garr Redthread Research
Stacia Garr
Co-Founder & Principal Analyst

Stacia is a Co-founder and Principal Analyst for RedThread Research and focuses on employee engagement/experience, leadership, DE&I, people analytics, and HR technology. A frequent speaker and writer, her work has been featured in Fortune, Forbes, The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal as well as in numerous HR trade publications. She has been listed as a Top 100 influencer in HR Technology and in D&I. Stacia has an MBA from the University of California, Berkeley, and a master’s degree from the London School of Economics.

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